EP0016 05/03/26 - Season 2 Kickoff / Win Bigly Introduction

What if facts aren’t what drive decisions?

In this episode of Persuasion Club, we break down the Introduction of Scott Adams’ Win Bigly—and the core idea that changed how millions see politics, persuasion, and human behavior.

Adams argues we’re not rational decision-makers. We’re emotional, tribal, pattern-recognizing machines—and master persuaders know how to work with that reality instead of fighting it.

We cover:

Why persuasion beats facts in high-stakes decisions
How Trump used “weapons-grade persuasion” to dominate attention
The concept of a talent stack and “reality distortion fields”
Why mistakes don’t kill master persuaders
How group identity shapes what you believe is “true”
The difference between analyzing persuasion… and endorsing policy

This isn’t about politics—it’s about understanding how influence actually works in the real world.

Whether you want to sharpen your thinking, improve your communication, or just understand what you’re seeing in the world more clearly… this episode will change how you see everything.

👉 Watch now and start thinking like a persuader.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Government IT workers by day, persuasion enthusiasts, and verbal cage fighters the rest of the time.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

If you'd like to level up your persuasion game to godlike levels, grab your favorite stimulant and prepare yourself for the persuasion hit of the day. It's the Persuasion Club Podcast and it starts now.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Hey, welcome everybody to the Persuasion Club Podcast. We're actually here.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Welcome.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Yeah. It wouldn't be a podcast without our normal and usual technical difficulties. This one's all on me, folks. Um, as I've been trying to make the show better and better and better. Um, I really thought that I was gonna be able to pull it off and get everything ready before six o'clock tonight, and uh it didn't work out. But we're here now, and I appreciate you doing uh and hanging in there with us. Hey Steven, how are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Hey Kevin, doing good, man. Good to see you. I'm glad we're here this evening. So things are going well.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Things are well, and we're gonna make this uh show uh a little bit more condensed tonight, so we'll kind of skip a little bit of the small talk so that we can all kind of finish out our evening and get going. So we're gonna dive uh quickly into the the material for tonight. Um I want to get back here to our mode um because I I have to say that doing a podcast is a lot like this. This is a podcast getting the podcast going.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Ridiculous beautiful feet.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

We've gone to plaid, man. That's pretty much what's happening. Oh well um that was great. Yeah, I thought that would be a great illustration of kind of how things go for us sometimes. But um, hey, let's go ahead and um dig into our topic. We um wanted to uh start a new book, and we had gotten uh to the point where we uh were kind of picking our book and uh deciding what we were gonna do. And uh then we picked that book, and then I found out shortly afterwards that our good friend uh Owen Gregorian, who is one of the Scott Adams um kind of team taking over uh the Scott Adams school, uh was doing his own little walkthrough uh Big Wiggly in his spaces on X. Um so I was actually even listening a little bit to that this morning. And Owen, if you're listening this uh afternoon or evening here, I apologize that our streams crossed and uh that we're doing kind of the same thing uh that you're doing, but it wasn't intentional. We um had already kind of started down this path already, and then that's when I found out you were doing your thing. But um I actually like what I was hearing. Um it was a more of a discussion kind of thing where lots of people are kind of in on the discussion and you know, one person gets to uh talk and then another gets to talk. And it's a little bit different format here, so I think people will like this format too. And if uh uh you want like a little uh deeper dive with a bunch of people, you can join uh Owen Gregorian Spaces or whatever, but uh that's uh just had to get that out of the way before we uh get started here. Uh so yes, Win Bigley, Scott Adams. That's our book. Um are you ready, Steven? Uh I know you've had a chance to listen to the introductory um chapter of the pod uh of his book, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Yeah, yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, this uh this book uh it it seems like it was very uh it a lot of people uh took it very differently differently differently. Sorry. Uh uh and so I find it very intriguing the whole premise of the book and uh how it was written and uh the topic, everything is uh super exciting. So yeah, I'm I'm excited to go through it.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

Yeah. Um and this being the introductory chapter, it's not like the the whole um meteor stuff, but uh at the same time I actually found uh quite a bit of um good juicy stuff right into the introduction, just like I like it. Yeah, um and I would uh I'm gonna go ahead and play some clips here that have some graphics associated with it, and we'll then we'll talk about each one as we go through it here. So let's go ahead and do that. Um and one of the first things that I remember uh as you and I were talking about is the the the title Win Bigly. Um and you know it's obviously a book about Trump, and that is kind of a thing where uh for us in our podcast here. I'm gonna switch back to duo mode for a sec, is that we we had had some discussions about how we were really concerned about getting into politics on our podcast. Um you you would agree with that, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

Definitely, yeah. Want to be careful.

SPEAKER_03 5:45

Yeah, and uh so it was like, oh, you know, this one kind of you know, it's all Trump uh or about Trump, right? You know, so uh maybe we don't want to do that book or whatever. But everybody else was telling us that this was like the next book we ought to do. So um I want to play this little clip here from uh the um let's see which one would be the best. I'm gonna switch back to presentation mode here. And this is the one where he talks uh about his it's called the political detour, and I'll just play it and then we'll talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Before we go further, I need to tell you that during the campaign did not align with my political preferences, nor did my views line up with Clinton's stated policies during the race. I realize this is hard to believe, so I'll need to give you some examples to make the point. This little detour is necessary so you can judge my political bias. It is an important context because the message is always connected to the messenger. I label myself an ultra-liberal, and by that I mean liberals seem too conservative to me. I'll give you some examples. Generally speaking, conservatives want to ban abortion, while liberals want it to remain legal. I go one step further and say that men should sideline themselves from the question and follow the lead of women on the topic of reproductive health. My personal sense of ethics says that the people who take the most responsibility for important societal outcomes should also have the strongest say. When I'm not useful, I like to stay out of the way. Here's another one. Generally speaking, conservatives are opposed to legalization of marijuana, whereas liberals are more likely to support it. I go one step further and suggest that doctors prescribe recreational drugs for old people to make their final years enjoyable. What do they have to lose? Yes, I'm serious. I know it's hard to tell. I hope these are enough examples to make my point. I'm not in any political team, and I like it that way.

SPEAKER_03 7:49

So let's talk about that one a little bit. How how did that clip make you feel after you heard it?

SPEAKER_02 7:55

I mean, I I I tend to when when politics come up, I tend to try and remove too much emotion because there's definitely a lot of uh push and pull depending on who you identify with and uh kind of what they also identify with. So uh when I heard that I thought that's uh that's great. I feel like uh obviously he is writing about uh Trump and his ability to persuade, and he doesn't necessarily agree with him, but he does find that his skill in persuasion is you know whatever you want to say, like top tier, barred none. So uh I think he's more fascinated with uh how the persuasion part works, not not as much of what how they politically align. So I I like it. I I think you know he didn't have to give too much of an example of his how he leans, but he did, and I thought his example also is great, makes sense, and that uh those aren't bad points of view that he has.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

So yeah, yeah. Uh it definitely uh helped uh help my heart um and kind of um just sway, if that's the right word, any concerns that I might have had that this was going to be any kind of a a book biased um uh about Trump. And I having known and followed Scott Adams for a while, I knew that he um was not um a strong one way or the other, but I I've heard him say it in his podcast, he's a registered um Democrat. And a lot of uh but it's interesting though that a lot of his followers, almost the grand majority of them, uh probably are more conservative. So um I find that dynamic kind of interesting, um, and it works. It works for me.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

So yeah, that's you know, it's funny uh growing having grown up in a religious home, you know, that's kind of the example, that's kind of an example of like that you were told to do. It's like, you know, you know, he was uh he found the hit the people closer to him that he didn't even side with. So that's an interesting uh it's an interesting way to approach things.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

I think it helps him a lot because it gives him some credibility because and you'll you'll even uh catch that a lot in his podcast, but I also think I caught it in the book where he uh encourages people um to broaden the the news sources that they listen to for their news as well. Because if you're listening to just the things that confirm your own biases and stuff, then that's that's not very helpful. Um so uh by rounding things out and listening to things that are not necessarily um in line with your your beliefs, you're actually opening yourselves up to other ideas um that and then you can make your own decisions, of course. But um I'm gonna go ahead and play another clip here then um if we're talking about that. And this is um basically the um well I think that we he talks a bit about in uh Trump's missteps and um mistakes as well, which would be something that I would think somebody who loved Trump wouldn't necessarily do. And I think it's another way uh that he's saying that look, this guy isn't perfect, um, but we're just studying him. So let's let's check this out.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

If you would like to see my list of Trump's mistakes, I've organized them in Appendix C at the end of this program.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

I did that, so you won't think I'm lying to his missteps. Okay, so there's like a whole bunch of um things in that graphic there that just faded away. Um, but uh we could post those later on um on our website. But uh in appendix D of the book, yeah, there's a whole list of basically what Scott would consider messed missteps that Trump has made. So he recognizes him as not a perfect person by any stretch. Um one of the things that I know that uh a lot of people will talk about is the rhetoric um and some of the things that he will say that sometimes don't sometimes don't seem presidential, and those those bother me a lot um as well. Um although I find maybe you've thought the same thing, Steve, that I think a lot of the rhetoric that comes out of that out of uh the president is kind of meant to stir up and and be part of this persuasion package.

unknown 12:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I feel like uh getting at people's emotions and uh it it was interesting with something that Scott said in in his intro to the book was that uh let's see, uh I wrote it down here. Persuaders can blatantly ignore facts as long as the persuasion is strong enough. So uh you don't even have to focus on the fact or any facts, you can actually fully ignore them as long as uh what the way that you're persuading doesn't have to use factual evidence or information, it can be more emotional or something like that. So um I feel like uh that that was an interesting note from the book as well.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

That was one of my um I would say more interesting takeaways, uh, because it's uh it just feels like it's almost kind of like a a magic spell or something like that, where I mean it's not like the Jedi mind trick. You don't need to see the identification. Um it's but it's like somehow tap tapping into that seems like a superpower. Um since you mentioned it, yeah, I gotta I gotta play that clip because that's actually right here. Uh here's a persuasion tip.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Persuasion tip one. When you identify as part of a group, your opinion is the wrong one.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

I apologize, I'm playing the wrong clip here. Um this is the one that you were talking about.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Most observers saw this as a fatal flaw that would keep him out of the White House. I didn't see it that way. I saw it as Trump recognizing that people don't use facts and reason to make decisions. A skilled persuader can blatantly ignore facts and policy details so long as the persuasion is skillful. Oh, that's all you need.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

There you go. Hey, you got the clip. Yeah. Yeah, it worked out, actually. Uh but oh, yeah. Doesn't that almost seem like that would be like a super skill that everybody that would want to have? It's like, oh facts, facts, huh? You don't even really need facts, you know.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Yeah. Yeah, I I I just if you want something enough, uh and you and you apply enough persuasion tactics, uh you can uh well we're watching. You can you can get it. Uh so uh you can get what you're looking for, but so it is possible.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

I I would say that that kind of uh level of persuasion where you're able to uh still and I I I hate to use the word manipulate, um, so we won't use that word. Um but at the same time that you're still able to to do the persuasion um and get away with that even when it doesn't address facts. Um well again, uh it is a super skill. Um there was there was another clip that talks a little bit about how that all works. Um I wonder if it's in this one here.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Trump is what I call a master persuader. That means he has weapons grade persuasion skills. Based on my background in that field, I recognized his talents early, and after watching him in action during the election, I have to say that Trump is the most persuasive human I have ever observed. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

Now, those types of um different types of persuasion that he talks about, um, and if I remember in the book, and I I think I don't have the graphic here for this one, he he talked about the consumer grade persuasion, which is or I think it was consumer grade or commercial grade something. Commercial, commercial grade, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

When you can apply it in in your profession, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:53

So that would be like the kind of skill level that we could only hope to achieve. Um, I think like most of us, uh, if we go from zero, we we we would feel lucky if we ever got to that level, and I think that's like the level that he considers himself at. Um but then there what are those other levels? There's the um like the academic level. No, excuse me. Um, and I think that that was um the level that uh he put people like uh Childini in maybe, um, where at an academic level um he he knows his stuff, he's he's smart, but I don't know if if Chialdini is actually like a mastered level persuader, he just knows knows the shit, right? Yeah, and he talks about it. But then you know, beyond knowing about it, using it in your workplace, and you know, and and having a mastery of how it works, there is this other level, and it's that master level. And damn it, we probably will never become master level because you you just really have to be a special person. It's not just knowing how to persuade, but it's having like um it's your your personality, it's your charisma, it's your demeanor, it's it's a series of things that work together to kind of put you at that level. And I I know he put Trump at that level. I think he had Steve Jobs maybe as somebody that could do that. Um I I thought it was interesting. Madonna, I think he put in that. You know, so there's something about that level that only certain people can achieve, and probably you and I and almost everybody else listening to the show will actually never hit that.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

So yeah, and and that's okay. You know, there's only uh you know so many uh goats, you know, so many greatest of all times that can that can exist, but it does create something that you can always be working towards and you know gives you a life goal basically. Uh because it you know, there may not be a necessarily a top of the mountain. Uh there's always more that you could probably uh learn or get better at.

SPEAKER_03 19:23

So yeah, yeah. Um I think I maybe found that clip that I was hoping I could play uh here. It's Scott's credentials, I think is what it is, but let's see what he says.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yeah, here we go. This is a good place to tell you where my credentials rank in the field of persuasion. I label my persuasion skills commercial grade, meaning I successfully use persuasion in my work. A few levels above me in talent and credibility are cognitive scientists who study this sort of thing for a living. If a cognitive scientist tells you I got something wrong in this book, trust the scientist, not me. In my view of the world, the few individuals I call master persuaders are a level above cognitive scientists in persuasion power and possess what I call weapons grade persuasion skills. The qualities that distinguish weapons grade persuasion from the academic or commercial types are the level of risk taking and the personality that goes with it. Here's the summary of the persuader types. The most powerful ones I'll say first. Master Persuaders at the top of the list. They include several presidents, Steve Jobs, Peggy Noonan, Tony Robbins, Madonna, etc. Next we have cognitive scientists, and then third on the list is where I am commercial grade persuaders. I'll try to compensate for my lack of a PhD in cognitive science by linking to sources where it makes sense. But much of this book is based on decades of personal practice and observation of what works and what doesn't in the realm of persuasion.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Yeah, that uh I wonder what makes Madonna at that top level. What did she I mean, was it the song like a virgin or like what yeah?

SPEAKER_03 21:12

Yeah. Maybe somebody who who knows Scott better than we do, um, someone close to the family might know the answer to that. Why did he choose Madonna? Um I did find that kind of Tony Robbins.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

Isn't Tony Robbins like um was he a singer coach?

SPEAKER_03 21:29

Um isn't he like a motivational speaker? Yeah. So I got I think uh that would make sense to me.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Yeah, I think uh I guess yeah, that that can make more sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

Okay. Um well let's see. I'm gonna try to figure out what clips we haven't played yet. Um and this is uh just to kind of get through our our section here as we we'll deep dive more into the chapters next week. Um let's talk. And look at um this clip here, and it has to do with negotiation. This came straight out of the introductory chapter. Um, and I think it touches on some things that we covered during the theory. That's a weird one. That's got like a real bad echo in it. Did that have an echo for you? Echo.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Trump's position gave him plenty of room to negotiate back to something more reasonable after he was in office. That's exactly what happened. Even if you don't like where he ended up. As I write this, President Trump's current immigration policy is focused on deporting undocumented immigrants who committed serious crimes after entering. His critics probably felt relieved because his opening offer, mass deportation, was so aggressive that his current policy seems more reasonable than it might have, without the opening offer for contrast. That is classic deal making. You start with a big first demand and negotiate back to your side of the mill.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

Did you know that one, Steven, before we started getting into persuasion? Did you ever know about that particular tactic of bakering?

SPEAKER_02 23:17

Like uh are you so like when you propose something that's uh it's like a negotiation tactics where you're you start off with something so big that the thing that you where you really want to get to seems more reasonable. So you yeah, so I I'm aware of that. You're familiar with that one. Yeah, and I it's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

I I uh that was new to me. Um, and I maybe did know about it, but I just never really like knew the concepts uh behind it, like how how and why it works. So um I I find it just fascinating. Uh truly. Uh I I want to actually try it out on some people. I uh I figure that this is how I will negotiate my my work from home. So yeah, well that's uh yeah. I'm gonna work from home all the time, and you know, knowing that that's not ever gonna happen, but maybe if they'll give me you know a lot you know more days than not, that would be cool.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Yeah, yeah, I I yeah, exactly. And with negotiation, the the the thought is if I don't ask, you know, what's the harm in asking? Uh so it but and if I don't ask, then what could I lose out on if I just don't if I were to just ask and then they're okay with it, then I get more than what I was hoping for. And if they're not okay with it, then what I really want will seem more reasonable to them. So it's all this whole entire negotiation tactic where you're you know you're playing mental games with people, but you're it and but the goal is to get the best outcome for that you think, so whether that's greedy or something more for the community or something is up to I think your intentions. I think so. It's more of what do you intend?

SPEAKER_03 25:10

Yeah, what is it that you you're after? Yeah, um, I will uh probably eventually come back and report about how that uh that works for me because I I am going to be trying that soon um as I try to hear that to begin the negotiations from uh yeah. Uh well you know I've been uh we've known each other for about three years now. Um and I think I've been talking about more work from home since day one.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

So yeah, I hope it goes well. I hope you make a I hope you have a good I hope that you have a fortuitous conversation because uh that would be really nice.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

Yeah, well we'll we'll see. We'll see. The the downside though is that I get to uh I if I don't at least come in the office now and then, then I don't get to see you and the rest of the gang that uh I always enjoy seeing.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

So we are pretty cool, we are pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

Yeah. Um, did I play the clip about persuasion? I think I did persuasion tip one about the group consensus, or I started to, and then I realized I was playing the wrong clip. Um I want to make sure I don't replay um clips here. So did we did we do this one yet?

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Persuasion tip one. When you identify as part of a group, your opinions tend to be biased toward the group consensus.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

Okay. That's a short and and easy one, but it probably ought to make the most sense uh really. It's a pretty simple uh concept that uh and we were talking a little bit about that earlier, that if your um news sources, things that you watch on TV are all the same things that you already agree with, then you're you're just confirming your own biases. So um uh same that that's just gonna uh cross multiple domains. It's not just related to um that your political views or your world views, but just persuasion in general, that if you're um if you're not careful, you can you can come into it with a bias.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Um and I I feel like uh people people yeah, people do if you find yourself being easily swayed by what you read or see online, is a good time to step back and uh make sure that you have strong uh thoughts and opinions on things before you uh listen to too much as well, because there's a lot out there that can be really misleading. And if you go out there with a very like open mind or you haven't thought about some things, you could quickly form opinions uh that you may not have agreed with uh before. Uh but if you you know, so I feel like people just yeah, need to be really careful because I tend to go into situations with pretty strong opinions. So listening to but but also listening to someone else with a differing opinion is a good idea. And just because you listen to someone with a different opinion does not mean that you agree with them. But I think there are people who think whatever you listen to, you just are oh, so you've listened to Joe Rogan or you know, somebody like that that uh you must like Joe Rogan, yeah. Yeah, it's like no, he had an interesting guest, and I wanted to hear the conversation, so it you know, it's like yeah, so there's it people out there are really uh quite quick to jump on you. So it yes, you should be listening to multiple things, but I feel like yeah, just careful, just be careful because people will form opinions really, really, really quickly. So you just have to be careful.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Well, yeah, I I would say that a lot of folks would assume, um, just as we were mentioning earlier, that if you were um a fan of or listen to Scott Adams, that that would automatically make you a conservative, and that's not uh entirely true. In fact, uh I think there's actually very uh uh quite a few uh liberal folks out there that listen to uh listen to Scott Adams.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

So um we have Yeah, because people people couldn't separate that he he can speak say something positive about someone that you may not like or agree with, but there there can still be positives uh that you talk about, and I feel like a lot of people have a hard time separating the those things. Uh so absolutely that that can that's why it's so such a sensitive topic. Politics can be so sensitive because people can't separate stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_03 29:54

Very much so, and it's pretty much uh kind of what what we worried about when we were starting uh in on this book, but I think I'm feeling pretty good about it. I don't think this is going to be a political book at all. Um I'm gonna go ahead and play this last clip here, and this is kind of um. Oh, it maybe when I didn't load the clip in here because I was busy solving some other problems, I guess. Um it was uh Scott's invitation to to basically join uh him for this book, which we're doing. Um, so um I think I uh might play that clip at another time since I don't have it now. But um this is kind of our our our initial conversation about the introduction, and we don't have to necessarily jump to chapter one next week. We can still talk a little bit about the introduction if we want. Um I I I thought maybe we could play it a little loose here and not necessarily uh tie ourselves to the chapters quite as much um and just kind of kind of take it as we as we we want, you know. So if but um what do you think about playing a little bit of uh Who Wants to be a Persuader?

SPEAKER_02 31:09

I we should do that. Um yeah it's it it's getting late, but let's do let's start, let's start it and see how it goes.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

I know that uh your your time was gonna be kind of like cut off at a little after eight or somewhere around there, so let's just go through uh one round of it for now and and see how it's gonna be. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

I'm just it is it my turn, my turn to ask you questions?

SPEAKER_03 31:32

Yeah, I guess so. We could do it that way. So you've got my you've got control of the game, Steven. Uh you do your thing. Ooh, I can see you doing stuff.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Let's go with the introduction round one.

SPEAKER_03 31:49

All right. And I see we're playing for five bucks this time.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

So yes, this yeah, this is nice. It's uh yep, reduced. Uh I think it was fifty fifteen questions. Yeah, we had a lot of questions.

SPEAKER_03 32:03

Yeah, so uh figured if we wanted to give each other a chance at this five questions each would probably be good.

unknown 32:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Take it away, redo.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

Let's do it. Hey, first question Which self-description does Adams use to establish why he notices persuasion patterns? Is it uh he is a campaign manager, he's a trained hypnotist, he is a constitutional lawyer, or he is a polling analyst.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Well, I know the answer to this one, and most everybody does. He is a trained hypnotist.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

Alright. Lock in that final answer. Let's see it. Ding ding ding ding ding. Oh, dude, uh I don't have uh a ding-ding noise. Uh let me hear.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

Um, I should. Do it. Well, I was trying it, but it's not coming through, so I think we're we're hosed on that.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

Uh well, I'll s I'll make it try not to be too annoying. Okay, so let's go to the next question. Let's see. In the introduction, Adams mainly asks readers to view Trump through which lens? Is it A, foreign policy, B party loyalty, C, tax policy, or D, persuasion? Hmm, I don't know. Breaking. Let's do it. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

You ding ding ding ding ding ding ding.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Beautiful the music that we had going with this, um, I think regressed in one of our builds, so we don't have any sound tonight, but hey.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Well, is there a button that I I need to push to allow sound?

SPEAKER_03 33:50

Let's see. I don't think so. Yeah, I think it's just beat a butt.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

Okay. Uh well, the next question. Uh let's see. What role does Adam say emotion plays in human decision making? Is it A irrelevant to persuasion? B, it is weaker than spreadsheets. C, it only matters after elections, or D, it often drives decisions before facts are rationalized.

SPEAKER_03 34:19

Ooh. So this is um one of those questions where it's like, uh is this question five already?

SPEAKER_02 34:27

This is three, number three of five. Okay, five.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

Okay, it's it's already getting a little bit tougher because two of those questions or answers, I think, actually could um be in plain here, play here. It could be uh a um irrelevant to persuasion, um, but then it could also be, I think, D, that it often drives the decisions before facts are rationalized. Um I think uh I'm gonna use my 50-50 on this.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

Okay, let's go with 50-50, and it removed. Oh my goodness. I think so. It didn't help me at all. It did not help you. Well, you already did that.

SPEAKER_03 35:08

Oh man. Oh my goodness. Uh, let's see, what role does Adam say emotion plays? Um, I I I'm gonna say that D feels like the right answer because it's you know, uh I think that emotions definitely um do tend to drive decisions and that people usually rationalize things later after the fact. So D final answer.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

I can see it going either way. Let's look at the outcome here. Yeah, cool stuff, man. All right, 13 bucks richer than it was.

SPEAKER_03 35:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

Good job. All right. Sound of the job. Question number four.

unknown 35:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

I've got them all memorized. Uh, why does Adams discuss his own political background early in the book? Is it to announce a campaign job to avoid discussing persuasion? To separate his persuasion analysis from policy endorsement, or to claim polling expertise.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

Way, oh well, well, to separate his persuasion analysis from policy endorsement sounds really good. So yeah, yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and take that one. Um, final answer. Okay, C locking it in.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding.

SPEAKER_03 36:31

Alright, four for four. All right, and regardless, I'm gonna use the audience lifeline on the next one just because we we like that, it's fun. So it's a good choice.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Okay, last question. What is the main mental shift that Adams wants before the rest of the book? We have stop assuming humans are primarily rational processors of facts, treat every poll as perfect, c ignore all persuasion techniques, and D judge only by party labels.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

Yeah, you know that that's kind of a little bit tougher. I think that there's a couple answers that might go. Let's go ahead and ask the audience there, Regis.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Okay. We're gonna do an ask the audience. I'm gonna give 60 I'm gonna give 65 seconds to uh yeah to for people to give the answer. If you go to vote.persuasion.club.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

Dude, I'm gonna go vote. Wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

I'll go check it out. I'll go check it out. I'll go look and make sure that it's showing up. It looks like it's showing up. I'm gonna start the countdown for the audience vote at vote.persuasion.club. Start the countdown. So now the countdown is the voting is live.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

Do do do do do do ba. Are you doing David Lee Roth? Is it better than the movie D pop? I got nobody. Nobody cares. I wish I was that good. Yeah, uh David Lee Roth's uh solo album. Um that was actually not a bad album. All right, I see the clock.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Okay, here we go. It is coming down actually the screen. I what what I see on the studio sometimes a few seconds ahead.

SPEAKER_03 38:39

Yeah, I might it it's weird. Yeah, I don't know why it does that. Oh, hey, look.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Okay, looks like we're we've got votes for A. Okay, so we go ahead. Uh the audience said A. Would you like to lock in that audience answer?

SPEAKER_03 38:56

I trust the audience on this one. I I really do. I think we're gonna go ahead and do it.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

That's risky. Risky to trust those people. Let's see what what happened. Ding ding ding! Oh, hell yeah!

SPEAKER_03 39:08

Nick Oh, big winner, big winner. Dude, congratulations. Yeah, does your time allow you to do a round, or is uh do we need to cut it short?

SPEAKER_02 39:21

Yeah, I uh let's I I can do a round.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

Okay, we'll we'll see if we can make this quick. Um so you will have to relinquish control um to me.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

Okay, I'll exit. I'll exit that real quick.

SPEAKER_03 39:38

I am out. Alright. And do you remember what round you did? I did one, the first one. Okay. I'm gonna give you round six. What do you think of that? Round six sounds good. Alright, whatever. Yeah, that's yeah, that sounds good to me. Alright, well, let's get into who wants to be a persuader, Steve. Um we're already at question one, and we're gonna ask what kind of expert does Adams not primarily present himself as in the intro? Not is it A, a persuasion observer, B, a policy expert, C a trained hypnotist, or D, a student of influence.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

I would think I I think it's B, the policy expert. He does not talk about himself being a policy expert, to my knowledge. That's my final answer.

SPEAKER_03 40:37

Okay, lock that in there, and is Steve right? Hell yeah, he's right! Woo! Okay. Uh next question then. Um this is what does Adam suggest about voters and facts? Is it? A facts enter every enter everyone identically. B facts are filtered through emotion and identity. C, facts eliminate all disagreement, or D, facts work like computer code.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Oh my gosh. What does Adam suggest about voters and facts? Um, okay. We already entered the. I'm gonna say this is actually kind of difficult. Uh, could I use my 50-50? I think it's B, but I'm really not sure. If I use my 50-50 and B is there, I'm gonna go with B.

SPEAKER_03 41:35

Alright, well let's see what happens. Uh um, so you want to use that 50-50? Is that what you're saying? Yes, please, let's do it. All right, computer eliminate two of the incorrect answers.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Chink! Oh okay. Oh no. Oh, wait. Oh no, okay. Well, I can see how uh facts eliminate all disagreement. But that is but that okay, that's if you view facts okay, but people don't see facts as factual, they will disagree with people even if facts are presented. So I'm gonna go with B.

SPEAKER_03 42:09

I like your line of thinking on that one.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

I'm nervous, but all right.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

Well, I'm gonna turn that special mode on um just in case. Um, you know that special mode uh of the show. All right. Uh does Steve have the right answer? Let's do it. It's uh he says it's B, and the answer is it's B. Oh yes. Good job, Steve. Oh my gosh, I was so nervous.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

Thank you, thank you. Dang. I thought I was done.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

Oh, you uh you I I thought your line of uh and your reasoning on that last uh part was good though, because you're like, okay, well, facts, yeah, they don't always really matter, do they?

SPEAKER_02 42:57

You know, so yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I was thinking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:05

Alright, next question then. Uh which term best fits Adam's explanation of why people defend prior views? Is it A, confirmation bias, b random sampling, C, weather delay, or D, keyboard shortcut. Which is okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:26

I'm gonna say. Oh man. Oh, wow. Uh let's go with A because everything else, uh, I'm not able to make sense of it. So I'm gonna go with A because that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 43:39

All right, A. Is that your final answer? That's my final answer. I'm gonna lock that in there. And Izzy right. Izzy right. Is he oh yeah. Oh yeah. You know, I almost kind of like the game better with our own sound effects, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

Yeah, yeah, it's way more authentic. It's it's more natural, organic.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

Can you imagine though, uh Who Wants to be a Millionaire if Regis was just like it would be so much better.

SPEAKER_02 44:12

The clips would have been uh outrageous. I think it would have been the memes.

SPEAKER_03 44:18

Alright, uh we're on the fourth question here, and you've already used a lifeline. You've got two left. Um let's go ahead and see. Uh what does Adams imply about confidence as a persuasion signal? Is it A it can feel more persuasive than careful I'm reading that wrong. A, it can feel more persuasive than careful uncertainty. B, it only works in math class. C, it makes language disappear. Or D, it's never noticed.

SPEAKER_02 44:56

Okay, so what does he imply about confidence as a persuasion signal? Um Let's go with let's go with A. I actually I think it could be C, but uh also, but but let's go with A and I'll risk it for the biscuit.

SPEAKER_03 45:13

Alright, man. This is three bucks on the line, you know. You're you're going for that fourth, you're going for that fourth dollar. Are you sure you want to do this? Yeah. Alright.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

I you know, I'm feeling risky. Feeling like I should go to Vegas.

SPEAKER_03 45:27

You should. We should. That'd be more fun.

SPEAKER_02 45:31

Dude, that'd be crazy. Do a show from Vegas.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

Yeah. Alright, well, we're locking in on A. Final answer. Is Steven correct or is he not? Let's see. He's right! Oh yeah! Alright. Alright. Now you uh have another two lifelines left, um, and we're on the last question. You've got four bucks in your pocket. You could walk away now, Steve, or you could go for the the fifth buck. Um that's like half a hamburger, uh, their uh favorite Mickey. Yeah. Alright. Well the question then is what is the intro's strongest challenge to fact-only debate? Is it a that facts should be banned? B the same facts can produce different realities in different minds, C, debates need no audience, or D, nobody should read.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

I thought about using a lifeline, but I think I have to go with B. Really? Because I feel like Yes, I have to.

SPEAKER_03 46:47

You have to, okay. So In my soul. In your soul, you already know. Don't even want any audience. In my soul. Yeah, okay. Uh gonna lock that fire. I thought about it, but yeah. That's okay. Uh we're uh gonna finish up B done for the night here, so I'm gonna get um Did you say A?

SPEAKER_02 47:05

B.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

B. Oh, oh shit. Glad I asked. B final answer. Locking it in. Yeah. Let's do it. Is he right? It better questions. Uh let's find out. Yeah, he's right. Good job. Good job. Alright. Yeah. Hey. So Steve and I are both um, well, I'm gonna give him five bucks. He's gonna give me five bucks. So we're kind of kind of even now. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we'll figure that out. Yeah. Alright, well, that actually does uh end our show. And um, we aren't going to do any duels tonight because um, well, just for time, and plus we're just not quite set up for that, but we will be getting back to persuasion duels in um no time flat, uh, probably in the next couple weeks. So Yeah, yeah. Alright, that'll be fun. So we eked out of the show. Um, I think it actually wound up going pretty well, even though we uh started late.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:10

Um this is kind of the direction and uh the way that we are hoping things will go for the future shows, minus the technical difficulties. So um we're gonna come back. I think we probably will start in to a little bit of chapter one next week, but I don't think that we'll um get through it. So um we'll probably do a little bit of a recap, just a real touch uh uh on uh the introduction again and then get into chapter one next week. And yeah, um I think that's the way it's gonna go. Well, uh, I want to say thanks for everybody for hanging in there with us. We're gonna go ahead and call it a night and play off. We'll uh catch you for a short after show after this. Good night, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

Take care, Kevin, and take care, everybody. Thank you so much.