EP0019 05/24/26 - Win Bigly Part 2

Tonight we continue deeper into Win Bigly (2nd Edition) by Scott Adams and explore one of his biggest claims: people often believe they are reasoning their way to opinions… when in reality, emotion, identity, and persuasion filters may be doing most of the work.

In this episode:

🧠 Win Bigly Part 2 Deep Dive
We break down Adams’ persuasion filters and examine how different people can witness the same event, consume the same facts, and arrive at entirely different conclusions. Topics include:

- Why humans are not primarily rational decision makers
- The role of identity, emotion, and cognitive shortcuts
- How persuasion filters shape political and social beliefs
- The Santa Claus Filter, Religion Filter, and other mental frameworks Adams uses to explain perception
- Why facts alone often fail to change minds
- How intelligent people can misunderstand voter behavior by assuming others think the same way they do
- The gap between reality and perceived reality

🎮 Who Wants To Be A Persuader? — Win Bigly Trivia
Test your memory with difficult questions pulled from Win Bigly Part 2. Expect obscure concepts, hidden persuasion principles, and enough suffering to make you question whether you actually read the book.

🔧 Tech Talk
Our weekly exploration into technology, tools, AI, and emerging trends shaping communication, influence, and modern persuasion.

💬 Discussion Topic:
“If perception drives reality, what happens when everyone is operating through different filters?”

Join the conversation live. Bring your opinions. Bring your disagreements. Bring your persuasion game.

🎙️ The Persuasion Club Podcast
Logic. Humor. Perspective.
📺 Sundays at 6PM PST

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Government IT workers by day, persuasion enthusiasts, and verbal cage fighters the rest of the time.

SPEAKER_06 0:07

If you'd like to level up your persuasion game to godlike levels, grab your favorite stimulant and prepare yourself for the persuasion hit of the day. It's the Persuasion Club Podcast, and it starts out.

SPEAKER_05 0:27

Oh yeah. That's the way it's supposed to go. Yeah, sounds good. Welcome folks to episode 19.

SPEAKER_06 0:39

Steven, can you believe it? We've done what? Yeah, we're on number 19. I crazy. And you know, we're finally actually almost uh, I think, to the level that I had hoped we would be at about our 20th show. I knew that we would probably have a lot of technical difficulties along the way, which we even experienced some tonight. But hey, they're not our fault tonight. It's absolutely rumble's fault tonight.

unknown 1:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

Blame Rumble for sure. I know, I know when we started the show, we talked a lot about, oh, you know, what about episode 100? You know, so uh we are, you know, we're we were looking to the future and little problems that happen here and there throughout the weeks. Uh they will be nothing by the time we get to episode 100. It won't mean anything, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:37

We'll be looking back on these days as the good old days or wait, no, yeah, bad old days. Hey, before we get started, um, this is um the closest we get to what we would call our Memorial Day um episode. So um wanted to acknowledge those um who uh have served and and died for our country here um right now. Go ahead and play this uh for you here. Um salute you. Yeah, classic Kevin style. That's how I uh how I like to acknowledge those who've uh died for a country. So that's right, isn't that how it works? You know, the Veterans Day, the Memorial Day thing is like, okay, wait a second, Veterans Day, those are just everybody, right? All the people that served, and then Memorial Day is those that that died. So right? Do I have that right? I believe so.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

I believe so. Yeah, all right, because when you think about having a memorial service, it's usually you know in remembrance of that person. Yeah, so that totally makes it makes sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:00

Yeah, okay. Well, um, and before you're wrong, then whoa, I didn't say anything.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Okay, sorry.

SPEAKER_06 3:08

You know, I'm going with it, that's my story, I'm sticking with it, uh, but uh yeah, I I think that works here. And then you know, we've got July 4th coming up, and that's uh you know, that's even another thing. I believe that's on a Sunday this year as well. Um so if it is, we may not be doing a show um on that weekend.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

It's on uh it's actually on the 5th. Uh Sunday is the the 5th. Oh, okay. So July 4th is the is Saturday.

SPEAKER_06 3:36

Oh, okay. Well, we'll see. We'll see how it goes. We'll see. Yeah. Hopefully we still uh but but we're gonna we have too much fun with these shows, so I don't see us not doing one. Yeah, um over here, real quick. I want to do one more thing before we get into our topics tonight. Um, and that is just uh ask people to please, please, please um oh check us out on our social platforms.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

That's cool. Nice. Yeah, I like the I like the the bubbly uh shiny, shiny shiny squirrel.

SPEAKER_06 4:18

Um yes, please. Um, of course, that's what we're we're just asking that you um please show some love, um, whatever platform you're listening on. If you uh just go ahead and hit that subscribe button wherever that is, um, you know, um we'd appreciate it. Um tell others about you, it is uh about us. Um it is the first and second rule of Persuasion Club. Uh, you talk about Persuasion Club. If you haven't heard, yeah, go to our website persuasion.club. The rules are right on there.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Um persuasion.club. It's a great site, and check out the library. There's a lot of good stuff. Check it out for sure.

SPEAKER_06 4:59

All right, tonight's topic. We're digging into um part two of WinBigley. Is that right? Um, I don't think I have the book um on in programmed in here tonight, as I should. So shame on me for not having the the picture of the book. Um, but suffice it to say, um, yeah, we we don't have the paperback copy of them because we've been doing an audio version of it.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

My book is audio only. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:30

Well, for and it this'll work really well for the audio version of the podcast because nobody will know. Yeah. All right. Um, anyway, you can find that also on persuasion.club. Um, we we have a link to the book um right there, so you uh you can just find it right there. Um anyway, um how how's how's it going um with your reading, Steven? Are you you finding this pretty interesting stuff?

SPEAKER_03 5:59

Yeah, absolutely. Uh thank you for asking, Kevin. I need to get better at saying people's names when I respond. Uh it's uh I like this book. I yeah, I think uh there's a lot in the book that he he sees he comes across very confident in a lot, and I think it's because of his experience. Uh you know, Scott was a very successful guy. He did several things very successfully, but so it would be it would be hard not to be very confident. So I do find myself uh realizing sometimes like whoa, this guy's confident as hell. Like he's he makes some bold statements that are very uh sometimes they seem over the top, but he does a good job at kind of going back and explaining everything and walking through how he's arrived to his experience or whatever he's talking about. So I I like it. Yeah, I there's times where I'm just like kind of like, well, interesting, but I've never heard anyone say that or or say it like that. So having a lot having a lot of that.

SPEAKER_06 7:05

Well, um, I would say like uh I'm totally agreeing with the the way that you're you're putting that down. That that makes sense to me because uh to me, the book um is not your traditional uh type of book where you just kind of like, oh, you know, I'm gonna learn some things about persuasion. It's making some pretty, pretty bold um kind of statements uh, you know, there that really challenge um your thinking, to to put it mildly.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

So it does. It's challenged me. Uh just like there's times where I I start, I I'm like, okay, I don't know about this, uh you know, I don't know. Like he, you know, he talks about hypnosis and stuff like that. But then there's times where it's like, oh yeah, okay, I see what he's what he's getting at. He does tend to make a bold claim, and then he go and then he kind of refines it. But uh, but he even talks about that that that's also a persuasion tactic where you you make you make a bold, very overly bold claim, and then you work your way back uh through it and to get to the point where you wanted to get where you want to get to.

SPEAKER_06 8:22

So I think a really good example of that, um, and it is one of the the things that he mentions uh uh first uh and early in the book is that um back when uh Trump had first made um his appearance on the scene for running uh in the 2016 election, um people pretty much had him pegged as being um zero point zero chance of winning and you know anything like that. And um I think actually there was one one guy that had him pegged at about two percent. Um can't remember the guy's name, but uh what you're talking about though. Yep. And and so Scott as a form of persuasion, because he he saw the potential within Trump, not based on his grasp of facts or his grasp of politics or government or anything like that. He he saw the potential based on his power you know to persuade. Um and so the um the the the bold claim, and I think maybe what you might be talking about is that he says, well, if this guy says two percent you know chance of winning, I'm gonna say 98% chance of winning, because that's a contrast for one, so you can you can use that as a contrast, but also because people then could all tie Scott's prediction to the guy who made the original 2% prediction because it was totally related, and people were like, Oh, well, so and so said 2%, but Scott Adams says 98%. So he used that two percent as a as a persuasion tactic, plus the bold claim, you know, of of 98%. Um, I thought that that was kind of kind of interesting. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

Yeah, he talked, yeah, he he wanted to be in the same conversation so that or or or by being in the same conversation as these other people who are known in that uh world and environment of politics, uh it gives him credit, uh kind of you know, it gives him credibility because he he's being talked about in the same sentence as all these uh popular or well-known political people, and it's kind of raising his uh level of credibility in that space, which that's genius tactic. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:06

Um, I don't know that I would ever um have an opportunity quite like that to make such a big um you know, kind of bold statement or whatever, but by golly, uh if you if you ever do have a chance, boy, don't lose it, don't blow it.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He definitely had, I mean, just uh uh having Dilbert alone as something he's known for, uh he you know, he kind of had uh a built-in audience.

SPEAKER_06 11:37

Yeah, it was kind of an an in for him. Although I think that in the political space, a lot of people were wondering, like, well, what are you doing here?

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Like you're just uh uh a cartoonist, you know, to some people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:52

But uh, and uh oh man, I I loved um when I was um working at Symantec in the early uh days of Dilbert. Um about that same time frame that he released uh the book, The Dilbert Principle. I'll have to loan that to you. You you've got to read that one because it's um um everything about working in cubicle space is is all in there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

I I I do uh somewhere I have an old Dilbert book, like a coffee table style Dilbert comic book, and uh I can't remember which one it is though, but uh yeah, I'd be happy to uh take any take any of them uh or or I guess borrow any of them and give it back.

SPEAKER_06 12:47

I have a friend who's trying to get a hold of me, and I've uh just been so busy I haven't had a chance to give him a call back. He probably doesn't know I do a podcast, so I'll have to tell him. Yeah, yeah. Um, well, any other things that were grabbing you um as far as uh notes he jotted down. Um uh let's go ahead and uh chat a little bit. What uh what what other things were kind of uh as I say, what was what was a blowing your skirt up? Yeah, you get these things.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

I feel like he kind of starts off chapter two or part two, uh talking about how people are uh super irrational and and just almost I think the he quoted quoted I think I quoted him saying people are irrational 90% of the time and they don't know it. People are not aware of their irrational state of being uh so to speak. Yes. So uh that is interesting to put into perspective when you're out there in the real world interacting with people. There might be a good chance that the people around you, if interacted with, can react irrationally.

SPEAKER_06 14:03

It's kind of scary, actually.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

Or or in some fashion, uh you know, irr saying someone's irrational is kind of a very blade, uh blank or a vague statement kind of covers a lot. But there's a lot of things that you could be irrational about, and at the same time you could be totally irrational about other things. Like, you know, someone could bump into you and you're like, okay, I get it. You were distracted, like I'm not mad at you, we're good. And then and then turn around and someone's dog bumps into you and you freak out because you don't like dogs and it touched you, and you're like you like you need to call the cops because you've been assaulted, and all of a sudden you were walking your dog, and now the cops are involved and you're getting arrested for assault. It's like what? Like so, anyway, that's just a totally made-up scenario.

SPEAKER_06 14:59

But what you know, you you illustrate a uh a principle uh that Scott even mentioned himself. I think I even have a clip here of um we're gonna just channel little Scott Adams here.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

I'll spare you the wonky science, but if you do some reading on those topics, you will quickly learn that the human brain doesn't have the capacity to understand the nature of reality. Philosopher Nick Bostrom takes things one step further by asking whether we are a real species or a simulation created by an intelligent civilization that came before. This idea comes from the simple fact that we will someday be able to create software simulations that believe they are real creatures, and when we achieve that level of technical proficiency, we're unlikely to stop with one simulation of that type. In the long run, you could expect far more simulated realities than the real one that started it all. So the math of it says we are far more likely to be a simulation than an original species.

SPEAKER_06 16:02

There's some food for thought. Yeah. Interesting. But the idea um behind all that being that we aren't able to rationalize like we think we can. And so how would we know if we were in a simulation or not?

SPEAKER_03 16:22

So we don't really yeah, well, because like well, uh uh well the we're the ones talking about that being a a possibility, so we can't be the ones that are simulated, right? Right. Um but also go ahead. I uh it's wording. Wording is important because they said we're far more likely. It doesn't say like we are, so it's just you know, uh there's wording, but also uh watching uh or having a uh going through the experience of watching life grow like a baby, uh like a human baby. It's like it's hard to believe that that's purely just a simulation, although there are things that don't all don't quite make sense about it too. So uh yeah, so that it is interesting to to think about though. It's good stuff to ponder, like work through in your brain, even though there may never be a full answer that we know is truth, but it's good to think about.

SPEAKER_06 17:28

Well, speaking of of truth, I'm gonna throw a little graphic up here. Um, this isn't really about simulation stuff. Um, I might have to turn my camera off for a second, maybe turn your off for just a second, too.

SPEAKER_05 17:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 17:41

Okay. Um, because I I always think about these kinds of things, and so it was um kind of pondering reality um as it were, you know. And it's like, okay, and you know how they make those little Venn diagrams, you know, of like, okay, here's like this thing that intersects with this other thing, and which, you know, and then this three, you know, so in this particular case, this would be like the um um three things that you see here in the upper right. Um, so you know, if you imagine that the real truth about any given thing is dead center there, where that little star is. I don't know if that's yeah, probably it'd be better if I should if I go over on this side, you might be able to see my mouse and see if that happens. Do you see my mouse now? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I see. It's small, but it's you know, you can see the mouse, and so that little star is kind of like dead center, and that's truth. You know, and so um there there's only I don't even know if there's any one person or one being. Some might say God is the only one that knows the the real truth about anything. Um, and we could say that. Um, but just whatever it is, truth is truth, and there is a reality. Um, but then when when an event happens, so like in this particular case, this is the the event is a robbery. Uh somebody robs a store, and you got these witnesses. Each of the witnesses each kind of like see things from a different angle, right? You know, so this person over here sees this thing from across the street, someone else is inside the store, someone else is in the alley. So they get different visual perspectives on that same piece of reality, right? And so you with me so far? Yeah, I'm following. You're like, where the what the fuck are you even talking about, Kevin? No, no, this is good. Yeah, you like you like this stuff? Okay, yeah, um, so so already, already you can say that whatever the truth is, um, from even the the robbers' perspective, there's there's different realities because they're seeing from a different perspective. So just from that for that reason alone, there's there's different realities being experienced. Um, so that's one thing to think about, but then we've got these our own filters, you know. So if witness one's like, oh, you know, I saw the this uh the red car, you know, um, and the thief was tall. But what if that person only kind of sort of rec recollects recollects only 40% of that that truth at any given time? Um, you know how how things go? It's like you know, in the heat of the moment, you're like, what did I really even see?

SPEAKER_03 20:32

You know, yeah, it can go fast, it can be blurry.

SPEAKER_06 20:35

Yeah, yeah. Um, our minds reconstruct these things, um, because and I think that this is kind of what some of the things that Scott is talking about is that we don't have the ability to actually really perceive reality as a whole. And this even makes it even more clear that that that you can. So next guy is, you know, like, well, he's wearing a black hoodie, he had a bag of money, you know, kind of remembers more of the truth, you know, over here. And third person, of course, you know, I had white shoes, you know, um, and ran away. Um, maybe even remembers a little bit more or whatever. And then this this part over here is is even more. This compounds like the you know, the whole situation because like in in the very moment you might have some details or whatever, but the next day, you're already kind of starting to not remember exactly. You know, you're already starting to, you know, and then a week later fades quick. Yeah, it fades, fades, fades. You know, so like by the time you're in court testifying or whatever, you know, you might even have a different, you know, different idea altogether what what happened. So yeah. So anyway, that's um uh turn our cameras back on here.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Um yeah, once you've processed something, like you can have a totally different look, outlook on that. whole thing. Yeah. Uh in in the moment you're like, oh whoa, something's happening. But then later, after you've processed it, you know, it's it could be a completely different stor. Or you could see it a completely different way because you may not understand what's happening when it when it's happening. Yeah. Yeah. Until until a little ways later, but then also some things are blurry. Anyway, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:24

That's a crazy the crazy thing about that is that we we lived in an age for about 25 30 years, maybe a little bit more than that actually. Where we actually had a way of having proof um of what reality was if you had a video camera you know or you know so starting with the old style video cameras you know to to the modern day cell phone um or audio capturing the audio or something like that. But damn it now that's all ruined by AI.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

So it's yeah it's hard to tell out there what's real if you're not out there in the you know in the world you know seeing it uh walking on it uh you know the ground but like uh it's hard to tell what's real when you're online these days yeah and that is a perfect perfect segue into Scott's next clip check this out humans think they are rational and they think they understand the reality but they are wrong on both counts simple they're wrong does that go along with your bold statements uh there stephen yeah that's a very bold statement you're just flat out wrong you you you think you understand reality no you don't okay well just good stuff good stuff so far um yeah um anything else that you wanted to share from notes or I mean yeah I got lots of I got lots of yeah same here I've got tons too so I knew this isn't gonna be in one show we're gonna do multiple shows just in this this this part I think yeah well so we're talking about people being irrational and like their brains they're not really recognizing it at times uh so that's like the he starts talking about cognitive dissonance like throws down an official term so we get into that conversation but basically the pe the people who are experiencing that cognitive dissonance are not aware of it. If you were aware of it you would probably not be experiencing you're probably not experiencing it. So uh they can't see things the way that they are if you're if you're in that state of mind. So I find that very interesting uh it that can manifest in a lot of different ways there's nowhere like one way that it has to happen or be uh but it's something that you don't really recognize. So you can only do your best to try and recognize where you are what is your reality what is happening what is the truth you can only chase you you know you can you have to chase that I don't think it's something anyone will ever be able to to define because everybody's reality is a little different to them.

SPEAKER_06 25:30

Yeah that's right yeah so that whole statement or that whole thing where people talk about uh a person's truth um it in a way you know it bugs me because like well there is only one truth so a person's truth but it in a way it also just uh makes sense um so yes people have different truths um I would uh fully agree um with what you're saying there um that cognitive dissonance is not something that most people could even recognize in themselves and probably the only people that are really good at it are those who either understand persuasion and you mentioned earlier uh which we won't be able to get into probably um until the next show or the one after that but hypnosis uh those trained and experienced in hypnosis are probably the best at spotting it so yeah I think we'll have to have Dr. Hypnosis on the show at that point.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

Yeah yeah that that would be interesting that would be cool because you know there's uh it yeah well we shouldn't talk about that hypnosis would be jumping pretty far ahead I guess so I'll try not to talk too much about that but it is a very interesting topic and the way that he brings it up in part two uh is very interesting and there's like some of the things he says are in a way jarring it's like oh I never thought about it and then he keeps saying things and you're like oh I never thought about that either like whoa that's crazy. Well some of the examples he gives are very crazy. So but we'll get there. There will be plenty of time for that.

SPEAKER_06 27:09

For sure yeah well that's why we have uh I I don't think we'll really ever run out of material for this show. Um I just we'll we'll constantly just keep you coming up with new stuff. So um sure for sure if not if we have to make up our own stuff we will we will hey that graphic that was that was true my own shit right there.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

So copyright persuasion club on job yeah thanks good job that's awesome thank you um let's see um you were talking cognitive dissonance um any other thoughts um I just want to make sure that you uh get a chance cognitive dissonance uh the the one thing that I thought was funny and I like and I am embracing myself is that uh if you receive a personal attack with on mostly on social media like Twitter X whatever uh it means that you've won and if as soon as someone gets to the point where they've they've exited the straw man or they've entered the straw man uh theory or whatever uh uh fallacy uh not theory but fallacy thank you and they're just attacking you personally uh it means that you've you've won like they are destroyed right it's like oh yeah well fuck you you know it's like all right I won yeah seriously like people people are so quick to tick turn a c an argument into a personal uh like insult battle and you're just like as soon as that happens you know that you're a dealing with someone who is on a lower maybe mental plane than you like they are thinking more simply and they are irrational you know you're trying to be rational and have an argument and they're taking the lower road and they're saying you know what I'm just gonna attack I'm just gonna try to take you out at the knees verbally.

SPEAKER_06 29:10

You're like that doesn't that's like a low blow that that just means okay you're you're fighting dirty and you've you don't have an argument so you're defaulting to making fun of trying to discredit what I'm saying by making me look like a loser or whatever you're trying to make me look like so it it's great when you're aware of that and how people uh act and behave then you can uh and you and you spot it it feels good because then you just know hey I'm better than that I'm out I won but I'm out and and they're gonna they're gonna say oh he didn't respond I won't it's like no he's not participating because you're not worth the time so uh yeah I think my father in law uh in Cambodia that's where he's living his uh last uh few years of life or whatever to uh but he's a missionary over there he has uh a saying that I actually kind of uh think is good the last person who speaks loses oh yeah because the other person didn't find it worth their time to respond or is that kind of like uh that's a good one I like it yeah because uh really what happens is you've said your piece now the other person's come along but but but but you know and you it's like yeah you lost you lost and I you don't get a response you're not yeah yeah um that's good that's good yeah um any other things you want to uh inject in there uh from notes or otherwise yeah uh well actually uh all the uh I'll I'll pass the four you uh yeah yeah I'll point the fifth okay well this is great because I I love hearing uh the stuff that you're picking up uh from this too I feel sometimes I talk too much so um I definitely enjoyed um hearing that um there's just a couple of things that I'm gonna hit on here because we're already um uh kind of mostly through um our time blotted for this segment um so yeah we better better finish it up uh kind of quick here but uh one of the things that I enjoyed was Scott talking about the filters um he specifically was speaking um first of all in terms of the persuasion filter and then um after that he um uh or kind of within that actually that he started talking about some other filters um so um I don't want to give it all away but one of them and he starts off with um was the Santa Claus filter um which in a younger life um a lot of us learn about Santa Claus and it's a great time of life because that filter um is magic you know um everything in your life is like anything could happen you know um and and it it doesn't even really matter um uh too much uh about whether you're right or wrong with that filter because you're a kid you know and um and it is um a way um actually that filter for as Scott would say being able to predict the future because you know certain things are going to happen you know that Santa Claus will come the tooth fairy will come um all of the the right you know um people that we learn about um as as a kid or whatever um and then you know we shed those filters um hopefully most of us will shed those filters for other filters um yeah and this is where he um we'll go in uh you know talks uh uh about the religion filter the alien experiment filter the atheist um and materialist filter um and this one was kind of funny um definitely worth buying the book uh for him just to listen to him talk about the weed filter so and um then this the mushroom and the psychedelic filter um and then he kind of lands like um what would he would call us probably more uh current filter um before he passed which was the moist robot filter that that whole idea that we're programmable um and again kind of um more more in line with the idea that um um well here i'll I'll play it the moist robot filter my current filter on life is what I call the moist robot filter I wrote about it in detail in my book how to fail at almost everything and still win big the summary is that human brains are moist computers that can be reprogrammed if you know where the user interface is. So and that's really about what what the book is is about is how do we program which is you know how do we how do we persuade so yeah moist computers yeah um I uh we have so much material that we could dive into but um we we'd probably want to go and and play a little game um do a little gameplay yeah it's almost seven it's crazy yeah I don't know how late you're able to stay but do you have time for me to do the the Ba Bah video stuff real quick because that's that's kind of fun okay cool we can finish out with the game or something. Yeah and then we'll just skip tech talk for tonight because our tech talk was our failure to start on time. We've been talking yeah we've been talking or we could do after yeah um okay so the the here's here's where we'll go we'll go ahead and put the this backup here and um Scott actually has a little bit of a call to action in his book here. So let me um let me play this.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

How strong is persuasion want to see something freaky pause this for a minute and do an internet search for the McGurk effect.

SPEAKER_06 35:25

Okay so Scott says go and take a look at the Mc McGurk effect. So here is that check it out what do you hear ba but look what happens when we change the picture and yet the sound hasn't changed in every clip you are only ever hearing bah with a B.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

B it's an illusion known as the McGurk effect. Take another look concentrate first on the right of the screen now to the left of the screen bah the illusion occurs because what you are seeing clashes with what you are hearing.

SPEAKER_08 36:32

In the illusion um what we see overrides what we hear so um the mouth movements we see as we look at a face can actually influence what we believe we're hearing. If we close our eyes we actually hear the sound as it is if we open our eyes we actually see how the mouth movements can influence what we're hearing.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Bah bah ba it's a bizarre effect remember the only sound you're hearing is ba with a B. Bah bah bah bah what's remarkable about this illusion is even knowing how it's done doesn't seem to make a difference.

SPEAKER_08 37:12

Bah the effect works no matter how much you know about the effect. I've been studying the McGurk effect for 25 years now and I've been the face in the stimuli I've seen stimuli thousands and thousands of times but the effect still works on me.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

I can't help it bah ba the McGurk experiment shows us that even when our senses are working normally we can still make mistakes in interpreting their signals crazy shit huh?

SPEAKER_03 37:43

Yeah that isn't crazy yeah I I feel like that's such a good example that relates to a lot of stuff that happens in real life where someone says something and what you see mixed with what you hear uh somehow becomes a different message and can totally change your reaction to that thing. So um it can manifest in a lot of ways but yeah that's crazy. Yeah the mind is just really very interesting and um yeah you learned something about yourself uh and then and humanity and you know so anyway you learned that here on Persuasion Club everybody um yeah the McGurk effect the McGurk effect yeah all right um and that was mentioned in Scott's book so you guys uh gotta go out and buy yourself a copy of Win Bigly if you haven't already um well are we are we ready to do some gameplay then hey let's do it all right I've got I've got a session loaded up beautiful all right well you've got controls um my friend so you go ahead and uh are oh I hit a button and it went forward are you ready I am ready for questions about Win Bigley I'm Brady Bad okay let's let's get let's get after this uh uh what is Adam's likely diagnosis of an expert who says no rational voter would choose that a the expert has solved voter psychology the expert is describing turnout mechanics only the expert is evaluating voters as they as if they are rational utility machines and D the expert has discovered a polling error okay are we doing these together oh yeah actually should we do this together because I need to I I don't I that I don't know the answer to what that is I don't know yeah what I happen uh last time when we did these together so let's go ahead and uh and do it so okay um and this I don't is this supposed to be part of the I don't know if we've covered this in the book have have we covered this in the book it's supposed to be these answers supposed to be um but you know if we're not then um hmm well there's a lot there's a lot that uh gets said and and sometimes I'm like wow I just ended up vibing with the book and I forgot to take notes so yeah uh I'll need I'll need help.

SPEAKER_06 40:16

That that happens to me a lot too with this book um because it's just it's such a great listen it's just always fun to hear Scott talking and well and of course uh actually our edition I think is someone else uh reading but um well let's let's let's pick through this one logically um what is Adam's likely diagnosis of an expert who says no rational voter would choose that um I don't think a is gonna be the answer because that just sounds too yeah you know like oh the expert just figured it out you know yeah you they didn't just solve psychology yeah yeah um and then B let's see the expert is describing turnout mechanics only that doesn't really fit um C the expert is evaluating voters as if they are rational utility machines there's that word rational that's the one I that's what I'm thinking is C Yeah yeah and then D the expert has discovered a polling error which you know that doesn't work why would they yeah they would just say that right yeah so I I'm with you um Steven and I would say C.

SPEAKER_03 41:35

Big C okay let's lock it in and see if we're right ding ding ding ding ding ding awesome we are we were right I you know I'm doing the sounds manually tonight from my end so uh very nice hey that sounds good and we got one dollar so we are on our way up the ladder. Look at rich man remembering we we missed the first question. Yeah we totally blew it man we lost that dollar all right which answer best describes a persuasion frame a a secret database of facts or b a context that tells the audience what a fact means a legal boundary around an argument or D a promise that no emotion is involved okay well process of elimination on this one here too a sure doesn't sound good to me um b let's see a context that tells the audience what a fact means that's that's sounding like it could be the answer to me but I don't know what do you think uh yeah because uh I feel like uh framing is about uh building context around a situation and uh trying to and then reframing would be trying to recontextualize that message so I think on B I think our powers of figuring shit out are strong tonight yeah should we lock in B I'm already saying we won't yes uh great great great okay two bucks two bucks number three we got two bucks yeah uh we could each get something at the Dollar Tree well actually not really because it's like a dollar twenty five now uh why can a slogan outperform a detailed platform in Adam's model a slogan outperform a detailed platform a it is legally binding b it contains more information c it is affordable emotional and easier to repeat it's it prevents criticism.

SPEAKER_06 44:03

That one's easy, actually, don't you think?

SPEAKER_03 44:07

Oh I actually haven't thought at all about any of the answers. I read them without thinking. But what is Adams? I do that too sometimes.

SPEAKER_06 44:15

Adams' model meaning uh the model of persuasion or um yeah I guess um Adam's model is probably just his way of thinking is what I'm kind of guessing is what he's saying there. Um so his in his way of thinking um a slogan has nothing to do with being legally binding a doesn't sound like it yeah um I don't think that anything prevents criticism so you can cross out D. So that's gonna leave us with C or B. A slogan does contain more information if you have a good slogan because you can put information into your slogan but I don't think that's it.

SPEAKER_03 45:04

But they're usually quick you know yeah and repeatable is you know and emotional somewhat right it plays to your emotions so C sounds like it might be I'm I'm thinking that that's that's got a lot of potential and I would lock it. Let's do the dramatic ding ding ding ding it is the right answer. Woohoo let's show the ladder we've completed three we got three bucks we're rich we are rich okay what is this question number four what is the strongest Adam style reason people reject contrary evidence a contrary evidence is always fabricated B accepting it would damage the movie they already are already living in C they have no memory of previous beliefs D they are waiting for permission from pollsters permission from pollsters who needs that yeah nobody needs that doesn't sound like anybody needs that yeah that's yeah so we can we can rule that one out um yeah yeah well go ahead and um if you if you'd like to take a shot at this one here and then I'll okay contrary evidence is always fabricated a I think is non we don't consider that because that's not true. I think that I think people believe that's true. Oh anything that's contrary to what I think is just made up. It's bullshit man it's bullshit yeah some people live that way but that's not true. Right uh that would be confirmation bias wouldn't it that would be purely living in confirmation bias yeah that's crazy can't do that. Well you can you can do that and people do it but they don't have a lot of good you know things going for them. But uh I well don't I don't want to be too harsh but I mean it's too bad to live that way. And then I I don't think C, they have no memory of previous beliefs that doesn't make sense. I think B means that uh it would it would it would damage the movie that they're already living in.

SPEAKER_06 47:26

And that sounds like something Scott Adams would say so yeah the whole movie one screen one screen two movies kind of thing yeah yeah okay I gotta I gotta choose it we're just talking and I'm not choosing.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

Are you cool with that one? Let's choose and let's go for it. All right let's reveal that outcome awesome oh yeah okay we've reached the final question this is good this has been good what do you say that we use the uh the audience one on this one we won't even try we'll just we'll just okay flip it to the audience we're going to do the vote oh we'll we'll show you where to go so uh we will need audience participation uh which answer best explains why a persuasive message can survive factual attacks whoa okay let's show uh the answers it may be operating at the level of meaning identity or emotion rather than literal detail whoa that was a mouthful uh b it is protected by campaign finance rules and c it cannot be heard by fact checkers and it becomes mathematically true if attacked now we're going to ask the audience so everyone get ready we're I'm gonna put 70 actually I'm gonna put 90 seconds on because we can talk about something we can keep it rolling uh for 90 seconds no problem I'm going to uh arm the poll so people can load up the website on the screen vote dot persuasion dot club do it that website go there all all of you watching go check it out please it would be great to hear what you think is the answer even if you're wrong plus we need to test our voting so we make sure this stuff works so I'm about to start the uh I'm about to start the uh uh countdown for the voting so vote dot persuasion.club and here we go I'm gonna start the countdown oh I'm so excited you can now on that website choose one of the four answers and click continue and then click submit vote already got a vote we got a vote come on come on choose your answer then you go blue button then green button come on baby vote vote vote vote vote vote you know um we had um we had uh voting here in Oregon here last Tuesday and I was surprised to learn how how little voter turnout we had I was I was bummed uh did you uh there's a vote now and then there's a vote in November is that right yeah yeah there's more coming up I heard yeah I haven't heard any results of of what happened recently but I oh okay uh well and we won't talk about that on the show because you know yeah yeah yeah that'll get that'll get political but we're looking for people's answers to yeah persuasion but yeah I think the but it's being Memorial Day weekend and such we you know people are not uh sitting at their homes uh glued to their television sets or their computers or whatever watching Persuasion Club but you know that's their loss we got one vote we'll take it hey and we got voted for answer the answer would be a yeah all right how do you feel about that um I'm thinking that the long answer um that's wordy is probably the right one you know unfortunately that could can be true most of the time yeah are we correct yes we are thank you thank you everyone for participating let's look let's look at the oh yeah we won five dollars oh did we win okay um oops we won big time awesome well we're rich we're rich yeah we are yeah um so we're um pretty much at the end of the show then if we aren't going to do any um tech talk which I think is fine um for tonight um so maybe we'll go ahead and invite people to join us next week for even more uh part two um because I think we're gonna keep on going for at least another episode what do you think I think so there's a lot to talk about and even when we get to hypnosis which may not be next week that'll be that could be two weeks in itself so yeah well we'll have a special episode for that where I'll um you you hypnotize me and I'll hypnotize you and then we'll just kind of like hey man it's not how it works by the way we have to want it yeah all right well let's go ahead and we'll play off here and then we'll start a little after show.

SPEAKER_06 52:34

So thanks for joining and uh we'll see you next Sunday on Persuasion Club. Good night everybody.

SPEAKER_03 52:41

Good night. Happy Memorial Day